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Christianity, Church, church planting, deeper, God, Gospel, growth, higher, manifestation, missiology, missions, mysticism, plant, Revival, Sin, spirituality
Oh please.
The Word of God commands, gives precepts or examples for believers of no such thing.
Do you really desire to know the deep things of God? Go back to the Gospel and get a clearer view of the cross and what happened there.
Do you seek or desire to experience a manifestation of the presence of God? Then you desire to practice mysticism and not Christian obedience by faith alone to God’s final revelation through His Son, Jesus Christ in His written Word.
Do you want something to feel or to happen as you pray fervently? Then you are an idolater, seeking something other than Christ by faith. Repent. Stop it.
The message of the Gospel trumps any experience you’ve ever had or will have. Most Christians know very little, if anything, of true revival, and have little desire to. Are you one of them?
The message of the Gospel trumps any experience you’ve ever had or will have.
The fact is, the greatest manifestation of God in your life is greater hatred for your own sin and more visible conformity to Christ to those who see you on a daily basis. If you do not increase in hatred for your sin, but you seek to ‘experience’ manifestations of God in emotion, feelings, etc. and encourage others to seek the same, you not only are an idolater, you lead others in idolatry.
Seeking an experience in prayer is not seeking the face of God. It is neither praise nor worship, but the practice of mysticism.
Brethren, if you seek a ‘mountain top’ experience, the only thing you will find on the other side of it is more of your own sin, because what you practice is false worship.
When you live your life as if the Gospel is true, you are still in unbelief. The Gospel IS true.
Repent and believe.
Here’s what the Bible tells us: Grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. That’s all, and that’s all you need. Give me Jesus, tell me about the Gospel, and leave all your man-manufactured revivalism outside my door. Much obliged.
But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen. – 2 Peter 3:18
Wow. Spot on. I have a small blog that I’d like to copy this to…with your permission, giving you credit ofcourse. Either way, excellent.
Be my guest, permission granted.
Very well said. If I were a bettin’, you’ll have record high views on this post since most everyone is looking for a ‘trip’ up the mountain and it looks like from the title, you could possibly be their next guru.
Thanks for this, Joel…excellent!
“But, but…I spent all that time in ’93 working through Experiencing God! I read and tried hard to understand A Celebration of Discipline, and never missed an Hour of Power or an interfaith retreat or an opportunity to worship alongside my Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox neighbors on holidays and at ecumenical charity events! What do you meeeeeean I’m an idolater?!?”
Shush….and I love you for that…but shush!
But did you pray any Sun Stand Still Prayers?
When I saw the title via my RSS feed, I had to read it twice. Then the visit – and the first line renewed my confidence in the author of this blog
“Experiencing God” has led many astray. Variants of it, via the emergent crowd, still does so today.
Grace and knowledge – gifts from God to His children who diligently seek Him. Pray for repentance and to hate sin – these are gifts He gives to His children who pursue Him.
I might be missing something. But, doesn’t the Bible narrative explicitly depict experiences with God? I mean, I pray often for the types of experiences that persuade my heart to respond and yield to the living Word. Are not relationships experiences? Doesn’t the presence of God dwell in His Temple, His Body (as in, Christians)? Was the crucifixion an act of hatred for sin or love for His people? Does loving the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind exclude any capacity?
What your speaking of is God manifesting Himself inwardly in your heart and actions, perfectly biblical. The post has to do with seeking outward manifestations of God, preferring ‘an experience’ over the biblical manifestation of God in you by causing you to have greater hatred fo the things He hates, and love for what He loves. Big difference.
Praise God! I SO thankful to hear someone else say what we as a church staff have been saying.
phew, at first when I read the title in my email, I was thinking, oh NO! They got to him!! LOL
not really, cause you are too grounded to be sucked in.
Great post. I want it for my blog also. Please?
By all means, have at it.
thank you!
Scripture alone can work death in a person without the aid of the Holy Spirit. We must have experience in addition to the word. I’m not sure how one can come to a full assurance that scripture is God’s word outside of the Spirit bearing witness of it. (Luke 24:32) (Romans 8:16)
Does Scripture teach us to seek outward manifestations of God? That’s the question. The post is not against daily experiences in general. Besides, the Spirit bears witness of God’s Word by warring against the flesh of regenerate. Nowhere in Scripture are Christians encouraged to seek outward, dramatic displays of God’s presence. That’s the issue. Those who seek pillars of fire or clouds of glory are practicing mysticism, beyond dangerous. One other thing, when you say Scriptures can work death in a person without the Holy Spirit, you’re not speaking of being regenerated apart from the HS are you? I don’t think you are, but just making sure.
Thank you Joel for this post! I was talking with my mother-in-law over the weekend and she asked me how we do know when or how God speaks to us. I told her that God speaks to us through His Word and not to rely on “experiences”. I also said that the Holy Spirit will sometimes remind us with scripture to help us with a particular circumstance. I hope I didn’t mislead her in any way.
~Janet
Thanks for the timely rebuke. Just a few days ago someone was telling me about the wonderful experience they had receiving the “baptism of the Holy Spirit” among other spiritual experiences. I actually found myself longing for such spiritual experiences after the conversation. I should know better. Shame on me. ‘Preciate ya.
Yes, you are right to point out the errors of seeking for experience as the ground of one’s faith – but I have seen many friends come to Christ who started off with a volley of more “experiential moments” before they were led down the mountain into the day to day guts of faith. Couldn’t a post like this, tonally, be rather too harsh and confining for these new Christians? Couldn’t it unfortunately delegitimize very important moments in their lives? I, for one, praise God daily for the rare experiences I have had, though I know they are not what save me.
Honestly, I do appreciate the thesis here – it reminds me of Oswald Chamber’s oft-repeated urgings – but I just wonder if perhaps this post is “catching” only those who are already in line with it, rather than those still seeking, still very strongly desiring, the face of God, perhaps had an “experience” of something like that, and don’t know where to go next (in which case “Stop it” is a quick way to end such a journey).
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