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book, desiringgod, Harold Camping, interview, John Piper, PDL, purpose driven, rapture, Rick Warren, Saddleback
Dr. John Piper interviewed Rick Warren at Saddleback on May 1. Until yesterday (May 18, 2011) both the full transcript and video of the interview was available online. However, as of yesterday both have ‘mysteriously’ disappeared. Whether the material has any connection with Harold Camping and been removed in preparation for the upcoming rapture is unknown at this time.
Ken Silva at Apprising.org has been covering this story and has this piece expressing further concern for Dr. Piper. Ken tells us he has archived the full transcript of the interview, so all is not lost. Ken asks a good question:
I think it’s time we begin asking ourselves: Why is it Dr. John Piper feels such a need to promote Rick Warren?
As you can see Saddleback’s spin is that this “inspiring interview gives us deeper insight in to” Rick Warren. I’ll also suggest we’re beginning to also gain deeper insight into John Piper as well as he apparently feels it necessary to try and repair the image of Rick Warren and advance his ministry into this new postmodern Calvinist camp.
I sent the following note to Ken Silva and then posted his article on DefCon.
May God have mercy on John Piper.
My dear brother, Ken – where to begin? John Piper has been sliding down the broad road toward apostasy for several years now. His “Christian hedonism” is wretched from start to finish. His non-Baptist church structure baffles anyone who has studied Baptist church history – although he has built a model embraced by other professing Baptists, such as his good friend Rick Warren and his neighbor Bill Hybels. Not to mention my local circus act of Kerry Shook.
Why is it that “famous men of God” – at least in this generation – seem to lose their bearings as they age? (Warren was off course from the beginning.)
I became a member of Bethlehem Baptist Church a couple of years ago. My eyes are open and my ears are unclogged. I watch and I listen. I’ve seen, heard and experienced things that don’t make it into these blogs and I have deep concerns. I would appreciate a bullet-point list of the indications you see of Piper’s “sliding down the broad road toward apostasy” because I would like to pursue those things from the inside. Thank you for any assistance you can provide.
Several posts at DefCon have detailed many of the concerns any Christian ought to have with the public behavior and pronouncements made by John Piper – here’s a search page showing them: http://en.search.wordpress.com/?q=site%3Adefendingcontending.com+piper&t=post
I’ve not been a fan of Piper – don’t like his emotionalism nor agree with his organizational structure. But lately, there’s been a lot of talk about him hanging out with Mark Driscoll and endorsing Doug Wilson’s Federal Vision. In response to this site: http://defendingcontending.com/2009/11/05/piper-the-slope-to-heresy/ I searched for critiques of Piper’s “Christian Hedonism”, which I had heard of but not looked into. Should have. Here’s what I found that Piper has written:
“You might turn the world on its head by changing one word in your creed.The old tradition says, ‘The chief end of man is to glorify God AND enjoy him forever’.… The overriding concern of this book is that in all of life God be glorified the way he himself has appointed.To that end this book aims to persuade you that ‘The chief end of man is to glorify God BY enjoying him forever’.” (Piper, Desiring God, page 15,)
“The radical implication is that pursuing pleasure in God is our highest calling.”(Piper, page 21, The Dangerous Duty of Delight, bold emphasis added)
“Maximizing our joy in God is what we were created for.”(page 16, Dangerous Duty)
“The aim of life is to maximize our joy.”(page 19, Dangerous Duty)
“Unless a man be born again into a Christian Hedonist he cannot see the kingdom of God” (John Piper, Desiring God, page 55)
“Could it be that today the most straightforward biblical command for conversion is not, ‘Believe in the Lord,’ but, ‘Delight yourself in the Lord’?” (John Piper, Desiring God, page 55)
“The pursuit of joy in God is not optional. It is not an ‘extra’ that a person might grow into after he comes to faith. Until your heart has hit upon this pursuit, your ‘faith’ cannot please God. It is not saving faith.” (John Piper, Desiring God, page 69)
“Not everybody is saved from God’s wrath just because Christ died for sinners. There is a condition we must meet in order to be saved. I want to try to show that the condition…is nothing less than the creation of a Christian Hedonist.” (John Piper, Desiring God, page 61)
Take care in reading anything man has written, as all men have error. But this emphasis of Piper’s on the experience of enjoying the Lord is no different from any other experience based doctrine – it’s wrong and dangerous, putting the focus on the creature and his experience that must be on the Lord Jesus.
Apostasy really? I have concerns too but apostasy?
Read carefully what I said – “ohn Piper has been sliding down the broad road toward apostasy for several years now.” He’s rapidly heading into apostasy. I didn’t say he was there, yet.
You can’t make a tasty omelette with rotten eggs.
He’s got a doctorate… Lord have mercy!
If anyone has a super secret link to the captured audio for this, please email me as I would like to hear it and as I am in the end of the school year preparations I really need to just play it so I can listen while doing something else.
I know someone has to have it SOMEWHERE. Otherwise where’d the transcript come from?
People have learned to grab Warren’s stuff right away because this sort of thing seems to happen so frequently.
curiouser and curiouser…
Manfred — Thanks much for the links and the quotes. I have the book on my shelf, but haven’t read it yet. The quotes you listed are disturbing. Time to investigate those… and to bring them up with the joyful Christian Hedonists at Bethlehem.
Amos,
May the Lord God of Heaven be your wisdom and refuge. Press on the glory of His name – and please let us know as much as is proper, regarding your process.
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