Tags
Braveheart, bridger, Chris Rosebrough, Christian, Christianity, crosstalkblog, Ingrid Schlueter, Jesus, John Calvin, Lausanne, Madison Avenue, Michael Horton, photo, pirate, radio, Rick Warren
Ok, I said I would follow up the earlier post on the kerfluffle between Ingrid Schlueter and Chris Rosebrough. I’ll keep this relatively short for a variety of reasons, not the least of which it’s Saturday, I’m sick, and I’ve more important things to do like plant veggie seeds, and the fact that all this hurly-burly is in a large degree just plain silly. This is not exactly ‘making the best use of the time’ folks. (Ephesians 5:16). More on that later.
First of all, when I posted the initial article I had no idea that there was trouble in radio land, much less between two whom I’ve respected for their work for quite some time now. I still do. It was like walking across a green meadow reading a lovely book of poems to suddenly find yourself on a hillside between two armies, like a scene out of Braveheart, kilts, war paint and all. My inbox was bombarded, both armies spewing all kinds of arguments for their position in the matter. As for the comments on the blog post, I’d guess maybe a third were deleted faster than you could say Bre’r Rabbit, either because they paid no attention to comment policy, or the comments were rants by immature, pietistic little pissants. Yes, it’s a legit word, and in this case, accurate. Their souls are significant, their rants aren’t. Get your own blog.
Both sides have valid points, and both sides are guilty of prideful moments. I’m not going to plaster links everywhere here because if you’re reading this, and you are, you know where to find them. I’m not going to rehash the whole shebang here because this is cud that’s been chewed and rechewed by multiple Tom Brokaw wanna-be’s. So…I’ll tell you what I think and I’m done with it. Do with it what you will, or nothing at all, makes no difference to me.
For the record, know two things:
1) I’ve spoken with both Ingrid and Chris. (Ingrid jumped the gun stating I ‘refused’ to contact her before I even knew she requested it. I did not “choose to repeat some lies” and Ingrid, since we’ve spoken, you can take your update down now, thank you.)
2) Ingrid did not offer to bake me brownies, and Chris did not offer to send me an eye-patch or make me an honorary shipmate.
Now, here’s a photo: You know these guys, it’s Michael Horton and Rick Warren. You know what they do and, more than likely, where each stands theologically.
What are we to make of this?
Nothing too much.
Chris Rosebrough was Right
Chris was right in one thing, photo’s don’t say it all, and they should be taken into context. I heard the audio from Lausanne, and Horton said some pretty bold things at Saddleback. For all we know, moments before this photo, Horton may have stung Warren with some loving concerns about his whacked teachings. Maybe not. I wasn’t there. I don’t know.
Ingrid Schlueter was Right
On the other hand, Ingrid Schlueter makes a few valid points of her own in this mess. Forget the term ‘Bridger’, it’s irrelevant. Does this photo lend any favorable credibility to Rick Warren and his purpose-driven nonsense? To an extent, of course it does. How much? I don’t know, and neither do you. Was it ‘sinful’? Of course not.
Knowing what I know of Rick Warren’s theology, I would personally be uncomfortable having my picture taken with the man, and I’d probably decline the opportunity, but that’s just me. No offense Rick.
Michael Horton is a big boy, a grown up. He doesn’t need to defend why he had his photo taken with Rick Warren. That’s his business, not yours. Tend your own biscuits.
Now, I do wish leading evangelicals in the Reformed camp would stop hobnobbing with those whose theology is clearly, consistently and intentionally driven by a Madison Avenue mindset. However, I can’t stop them, and neither can you, which brings me to my earlier point…..
We have better things to do with our time today.
Listen, it is such an act of grace when we even wake up in the morning. It’s another day to focus on what God has done for us through His Son Jesus Christ upon that cross. In light of that, we would better spend our time communicating that message to others and mortifying the known sin in our lives because of it, out of love for Him and with grateful hearts.
I’m all for earnestly contending for the faith and appreciate the work of those dedicated to it. I appreciate the work of Ingrid Schlueter and Chris Rosebrough. Both have valid points, and both are still frail human beings, capable of prideful defensiveness. Aren’t we all?
I hope Ingrid brings back the Crosstalkblog. I profited from it, but she resigned it voluntarily. I look forward to more podcast from that zany pirate Chris Rosebrough. I profit from it as well. I pray their differences will be reconciled and work together in the cause of the Gospel and defense of the faith.
Now then, I’ve a garden to plant.
Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise but as wise, making the best use of the time, because the days are evil. – Ephesians 5:16
Whoever meddles in a quarrel not his own is like one who takes a passing dog by the ears. – Proverbs 26:17
I know some say this was just a picture but was it? People in leadership (whether formal or de facto) have responsibility. Who knows what happened there… and it probably doesn’t benefit others for us to speculate. However, I still say that it is wreckless to look so chummy in a photo with a snake like RW.
One thing is sure. We do not need to kill our own soldiers… we all need to take a breath and think how we can honor Christ most effectively.
Celebrity is a poison. Beware… any of us can fall prey to it!
It was like walking across a green meadow reading a lovely book of poems to suddenly find yourself on a hillside between two armies, like a scene out of Braveheart, kilts, war paint and all.
LOL I guess that’s an appropriate picture.
Huh. Interesting that you agree with both and slap them down at the same time. Well… ok. I am not sure why you spent so much time slapping Ingrid, though, when all she did was have an opinion (which you admit is reasonable) and did not use names publicly until Chris blew her little boat out of the water for having a different opinion. But… ok.
The issue is not about separation ONLY but about how Chris has handled the disagreement on the issue.
I completely agree with you Mr. Taylor. This is exactly what I said to Paula on Twitter a few days ago.
Speaking of which, Paula, did you contact Chris’ pastor? If you do not think he is behaving Christianly, you need to contact his elders. It is fine to address public figures in public, sure, but if your concern is about your brother in Christ, contact his pastors.
I am sick of the criticism. This is a stupid issue.
We are all on the same side here.
I know that pissant is a legit word because I heard it on The Homecoming.
A word of prayer for her would be in order too. A relative of hers on facebook said yesterday afternoon that shewas in the hospital in serious condition. A commenter referred to internal bleeding from an ulcer. If you’ll pardon my saying so I don’t know what the point was in you posting an announcement that she resigned anyway before you had talked to her. It was confusing.
She resigned the blog and voluntarily. It’s down…..read the title again.
voluntarily due to harassment by a peer and inability of other peers to stand up, peers she has promoted in the past… is hardly accurately described as voluntary.
Pointing fingers and playing the blame game helps no one sister. It was her decision to shut down the blog, not her peers, an inescapable fact. Have a good night.
Whoever meddles in a quarrel not his own is like one who takes a passing dog by the ears. – Proverbs 26:17
Amen Joel! Think it’s time for this dog to go curl up in his bed.
Night dude, and thanks for throwing some oil on the waters.
A bit too measured for my taste, and I disagree on the defending having his (Horton) photo taken with the heretic, but all in all well measured, and a voice of reason.
You can be sure that just as no pope ever used Formosa after the synod of 897, no Horton’s or reformers will likely want their photo taken with Mr. Trouble.
Thanks for the post.
What do we learn from this twenty first century conundrum? That a picture may tell it’s own story and not the exact story as the photographer intended. Thanks Ingrid and Chris for highlighting this. (I do hope she puts her blog back and I am still waiting to get a souvenir eye patch from my pirate friend). To God be the glory.
I don’t know where Michael Horton’s thinking is at these days, but, wherever his mind is at, it looks like he was used by Rick Warren. Warren had to know this picture would send a thousand words to anyone who saw it. It says, “Don’t worry, Warren is in the Reformed camp with John Calvin, otherwise he wouldn’t be so friendly with Michael Horton.” It looks posed and intentional. I can say from brute experience that Warren has made great inroads into the Reformed denomination, as has Brian McLaren, Rob Bell, and others who promote Eastern/occultic mysticism. So much so, that anyone who dares to try and expose the inroads occultism has made into the Reformed and/or Christian Reformed denomination are treated like Satan’s helpers out to destroy the church (just like Warren suggests in his book, PDL). People are being forced out of their congregations one way or another by many leaders in the Reformed denomination who have fallen prey to the deception that is taking place. The walls of Jerusalem were destroyed because the leaders back then fell for the pagan practices we see infiltrating the church today(2 Chronicles 36:14-19). You would think it would be so obvious to all what is happening, but blind trust and pride are disabling. By his unfounded, nasty, belittling remarks, Chris Rosebrough, whether he means to or not, is helping the Emergent cause. I believe he owes Ingrid one huge public apology. I hope he wakes up and Horton wises up.