From The Divided Film DVD, The Danger of a Youth Ministry Sub-Culture in the Church.
"There is a crisis. Christian youth are rapidly leaving evangelical churches for the world. This well-recognized disaster has been the topic of significant discussion in recent years for both church leaders and modern news media. DIVIDED follows young Christian filmmaker Philip LeClerc on a revealing journey as he seeks answers to what has led his generation away from the church.
Traveling across the country conducting research and interviewing church kids, youth ministry experts, evangelists, statisticians, social commentators, and pastors, Philip discovers the shockingly sinister roots of modern, age-segregated church programs, and equally shocking evidence that the pattern in the Bible for training future generations is at odds with modern church practices.
He also discovers a growing number of churches that are abandoning age-segregated Sunday school and youth ministry to embrace the discipleship model that God prescribes in His Word."
Interesting topic that has been on my mind lately as well because I find myself increasingly at odds with my current church’s philosophy on worship and because it is the only Protestant (yet Unreformed) English-speaking church in my area (there are no Reformed churches whatsoever in my current location except an Anabaptist church that thinks its Reformed but that is another subject). I cannot abandon ship; rather I must find a way to either confront things or lower my standards.
Unfortunately, even the youth-group weaned adults that do continue on in church life as adults are the same ones who are fuelling the singing of ‘Jesus Be My Centre’ and other such favourites, in the regular service. They were raised on dumbed-down feelings-oriented songs and teary campfire confessionals and that generation has now aged into leadership positions.
He would be the first to tell anyone – don’t leave an imperfect church unless it violates essentials of the faith. If there’s no better church within reach, either move to where there is a solid church, or stay in the church you’re at. It’s bad for Christians to pull back from a church that has this fault or that if, in so doing, they isolate themselves. Didn’t work out so good for Lot and his daughters.
I am so glad the falsehoods and dangers of so-called “youth ministry” are becoming mainstream concerns. Contrary to any biblical model, no separation of groups of believers will ever work, let alone unbelievers as in seeker (relevant fail) churches.
I’m sure no harm was meant when people began to fashion childrens and youth church programs but the results of them cannot be argued with. It spawned the McChurch and consumer metality of the church goer…”if someone else meets my felt-needs better than this church, I will go there”. It spawned the “it’s all about me” movement that Rick Warren, Joel Osteen and others capitalized upon.
A pastor friend of mine commented upon the fact that almost every church he knows of in our area does nothing but support group Sunday School. Every class is a Recovering Alcoholics, Single Parent, … type of specific interest class. Not very much hard core Bible study that is taught by qualified teachers can be found even in our church.
We need to teach the Bible and focus upon who God is and who we are apart from Him and who we are with Him. I believe that is our only hope.
Don’t know if I’m with you on giving the benefit of the doubt to those started these programs, Truthy. There are, no doubt, some folks who had no bad intentions and went along with what they thought were good programs – just like some who support gummint skools. But the instigators, or whatever more proper term might apply, were pragmatists and pursued results pleasing to the flesh rather than relying on what God has revealed for His church. Pragmatism in ecclesiology is not good.
Man,
I was talking about the church members who teach in the children and youth problems as being well-meaning. The perpetrators of peddling the pragmatic garbage called youth ministry as afore mentioned are guilty dirt bags!
Gathering numbers and ministering are widely different. Too many places gather numbers. Big deal. I could put together flesh-pleasing program that would gather numbers. That’s not rocket surgery.
We are called to be faithful to God. He builds and maintains His church. Announce your plans to do such at your church and see what happens. Some people get run out on a rail for suggesting a purely Biblical program. (Rhetorical)
Such broad brushstrokes. Does he really believe that every church youth ministry measures its success by entertainment value or attendance numbers? Have a little faith. It could be that the problem with the youth ministry in a lot of these churches is the church itself – seeker-driven youth ministries are most likely to occur in seeker-driven churches. Deep, biblically-focused, discipleship-oriented youth ministies will be more likely found in churches that foster the same values. It’s easy to tear down and build something you think is better (see the Emergent Church and every other reactionary movement that’s come and gone.) It will only be a matter of time before critics of the Family Integrated movement declare it bankrupt and erect another “biblical model” in its place.
One surprising consideration here is the healthy regard that Voddie has for the sovereignty of God. When he (and others of this persuasion) claim that a high percentage of young people walk away from church because of the negative effect of youth ministry, they seem to be attributing more power to men than to God. Is youth ministry really the deciding factor in God’s redeeming one of His elect? Wouldn’t it be more accurate to say that, “Young people walk away from their churches because they are not saved?” Or as Jesus Himself put it, “You do not believe because You are not of my sheep.”
And, if you do stay in a church that supports the abomination that is youth ministry, please keep your opinions between yourself and the church leadership. I have read Voddie encouraging people in such a situation to find others that are likeminded and begin to work for change. If you’re unhappy with how your church operates its ministries, and the elders aren’t inclined to change it any time soon, then find a local church that lines up better with your personal convictions. We have a God-mandated responsibility to preserve unity in the Body of Christ. Let’s strive to this end in order that He would be glorified when people look at us and say, “We can tell they are Christians by their love.”
Alan,
We do not have a God-mandated responsibility to preserve unity in the church by permitting false teaching, for example. Read the epistles. All speak against false teaching. Some or maybe even most of the pragmatic-driven children and youth ministry offering of today are drivel. Supporting such drivel in order to “preserve unity” is equal to giving the henhouse to the fox… Be careful. It is not love to give in to false teaching.
Truthy
I am glad to see we agree heartily on so much. I especially appreciate your avoidance of absolutes: “some or maybe even most…” I also feel strongly this way. That is a familiar theme in Christianity: few vs. many. However, let’s not chuck the baby out with the bath water – even if there is a lot of dirty water in there. Biblically unsound churches naturally produce biblically unsound youth ministries. But there are theologically solid churches that have a diligent and disciplined approach of ministering to their next generation. To condemn these ministries on account of the abuses that exist is inexcusable.
I have homeschooled all of my children. I love what homeschool offers. I have also seen some very poor outcomes from homeschooling. Should I condemn homeschooling?
As you say, we should speak out against false teaching – whatever ministry embodies it. But let’s be consistent. Consider for moment the sheer volume of aberrant teaching and outright heresy emanating from American pulpits every Sunday. Should we eliminate expository teaching? Should we forgo the proper public preaching of the Word because many have mishandled it?
If someone is part of a church where the youth ministry offering is, as you say, nothing more than drivel, that person should be examining more than just the youth ministry. I cannot help but believe that such a poor approach to ministry is the fruit – and not the root – of larger issues in play.
So I hear you defending false teaching? Since we can’t eliminate all false teaching, let’s not even respond to any of it? Is this what you are saying? You need to think about your position. You apparently are part of the problem. You defend the offenders if I understand you correctly. Please do not take this the wrong way but you make little if any sense…
I re-read my last post and can’t honestly see how anyone could conclude that I advocate false teaching. Hopefully you will allow me to clarify my baby/bathwater analogy. The “bathwater” represents the many youth ministries whose applied theology is either ankle deep or entirely dried up. The “baby” would be the church’s very real responsibility to minister to its members via its members – regardless of age and gender. The point: let’s not dismiss the churches that are seriously endeavoring to carry out that responsibility via some sort of youth ministry, simply because many other churches are missing the mark.
Alan,
Voddie’s perspective is that the Bible gives clear instruction that training children is the father’s job – he and his wife – NOT the church. While not all youth programs are apostate, none are founded on biblical principles – they all usurp biblical parental roles to some degree.
I understand that aspect of Voddie’s teaching. I am very glad to see the renewed focus on the vital importance of parents in the spiritual nurturing of their children. My concern is the willingness to write off every other provision God has made for His people – young or old. I’ve been involved in movements that do this and they invariably ended up being unhealthy.
Let’s do remember that, if we are followers of Jesus, then we are brothers in Him. Let’s make sure that our interactions demonstrate the love that we should have for one another – even (especially!) when we disagree.
While I understand where Manfred and Truthinator are coming from regarding youth ministry,
I do not believe that Alan was agreeing with heretical teachers. I Amen Alan’s last statement
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Sam, I have passed along your essay/complaints/issues regarding Voddie Baucham to Manfred. Thanks for stopping by.
Just stopped by and read this thread. There a lot of assumptions in these posts and I would ask all of you to consider this: We agree that the Biblical teaching of children is best done by parental instruction, not the church. But, what of the student who attends church and is from an un-churched background, i.e., one or both parents are not believers? I currently lead a college ministry in which 50% of the attendees are un-churched college students. Truthy? What now? I submit to you that you assume that the Christian parents are responsible. What of the non-Christian parents…what is their responsibility in this?
Bottom line…it is easy to fault the church for shallow ministry and creation of sub-cultures…especially when we assume that the body is healthy…it is not. I get Voddie, because he is talking about how it should be. Unfortunately, many of us are picking up the pieces of a anemic church and trying to make healthy disciples in the process.