Sanctification comes through simplicity, poverty and suffering? That’s interesting. Wrong, but interesting. Am I the only one who thinks this conversation is just plain weird?
A Conversation With Francis Chan, Mark Driscoll & Joshua Harris
01 Wednesday Sep 2010
Posted in Videos
No, Theology Cop, I’m with you on this one too. Wierd how concepts keep getting spun to mean something different than what the Bible clearly teaches. Self annihilation to gain spiritual benefits is a lie from eastern religions, no?
You know, it occurs to me that when there are not so many knowledgable theology cops around to warn us of theological drift, that these stupid, nonBiblical ideas get fed to the unsuspecting. Maybe we need more Theology Cops? I vote more funding to increase the police force.
Thanks for being on the beat, JT. Call me Barney…
Call me Joe Friday, I just want the facts. These three in the video are horribly short of them. Within the first minute, they display a lack of faith in God and a foolish faith in man: “Who’s gonna preach?” It’s the Message, you clowns – not the messagers! Driscoll’s follow-up questions stay on this line.
A lack of voices out there? They have a magic message that needs to get out?
“Sanctification comes through simplicity, poverty and suffering.” was not addressed adequately, but appears to reveal that Chan (and Driscoll?) has a Roman Catholic view of sanctification.
The whole weird conversation revolves around a false mega-church “pastor” view and their twisted view that these successful celebrity preacher boys are essential to the success of God’s church.
I agree that giving money to kingdom work IS joy-giving, but true pastors give their lives to preach and teach and defend and comfort their sheep as their primary mission within the church.
And what’s with people shaving their heads?
Yes, Driscoll is asking all the WRONG questions! Should we be glad he does it without foul language? Does he get bonus points for that?
LOL! Good point! Yes, I vote we give Driscoll lots of bonus points – worth the same as in that show Drew Carey used to host, absolutely nothing!
Francis Chan, minute 14: ‘I just don’t want to be deceived… I fooled myself in the past. I know I’ve gotten arrogant. I know that there is pride that’s really destroyed me in many ways. I’ve seen signs of …just…grossness in my life…I just want to purify it for the next season of my life…’
I guess he has woken up to the next phase of his life now, the mock-humility phase. It doesn’t matter how many times he ‘wakes up’ as long as it’s to the new wrong distraction. Sanctification is definitely something he’s planning on doing for himself. Jesus is definitely his favourite socio-political hero other than himself. It’s just all about the love, man.
When are all these young men in the ministry going to start admitting to themselves in all this supposed self-reflection and self-improvement that Jesus and his righteousness they left by the wayside long ago, if they ever walked with him at all? When are they going to wake up to that reality in their lives?
Maybe I didn’t watch the video carefully but from what I heard from Francis Chan about his mission, I really don’t see anything wrong. If he wants to be generous with his money, so be it..if he wants to help in the inner city/3rd world country, so be it…If i remembered the video correctly it was driscoll that implied that sanctification is about poverty, suffering, and simplicity, not Francis Chan. And this is not in defense of Francis Chan, but seriously, I think what he said is challenging. This is not about salvation or sanctification, I don’t think. It’s just being obedient to what Christ said about loving our neighbor. The book of Luke and 1 John says a lot about that. I personally am challenged. Seriously speaking, for most of us, myself included, it’s much easier to explain TULIP than loving the unloved, which I believe is equally important. Truth and Love…John 14:6 ~ 1 John 4:7-8
just my two cents brothers.
In Christ Alone.
wow…”if they ever walked with at all”. I guess you have the truth without love? Does God not use our physical life experiences to bring about change?
The mocking and ridicule is that really warranted? And beneficial?
I am totally confused about what Francis chan is doing. The reason I say this is because if God has called a man to be a Pastor, shouldn’t he Pastor until he goes to be with the Lord. Just my thought.
man you guys, wow it’s sometimes frustrating to read
Amy H “I guess he has woken up to the next phase of his life now, the mock-humility phase”
do you realize a statement like this is blasphemous? seeing as how many folks on this site are such purists in regard to doctrine/theology. you do realize that claiming the power of insight into a man’s heart and motive BELONGS SOLEY to the LORD?? how do you know whether or not it’s mock or genuine humility? why are we always assuming the worst of these men? one wonders what you would have said about david brainerd.
have mercy.
seriously.
Can you please explain just why “sanctification comes through simplicity, poverty and suffering” is incorrect?
Thanks!
Driscoll presents two views…..
I dont really “like” Driscoll all that much but just being fair here
and the funny thing is driscoll was CRITIQUING that view. he wasn’t advocating it. he was saying “hey francis is this motivating your decisions?”
If Truthy gets to be Barney, then I get to be Aunt Bee. This is worse than my ‘kerosene’ pickles. (love that episode
Truly IS a most bizarre little chat and the only person missing from this pow-pow is Mother Teresa. I see this video is splattered, now, all over the place and and far as I can see, JT is the only one bringing attention to the Driscoll – style sanctification. Or as Driscoll says in this clip , as well, ‘sanctification by complexity’…..OOOOOO – deep. Unbelievable things going on in this clip. Thanks for posting.
Beloved, God is sovereign and He will bring to light the Truth of these matters when the intentions are unclear. From this brief snippet it is not discernable what these gentleman were really trying to discuss, it was just too vague. Which begs the question as to why this video was produced? We can not gleen a good understanding from this “conversation”. Therefore, it would probably be good to lean to the side of caution for all parties.
“Let a man regard us in this manner, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. In this case, moreover, it is required of stewards that one be found trustworthy. But to me it is a very samll thing that I may be examined by you, or by any human court; in fact, I do not even examine myself. For I am conscious of nothing against myself, yet I am not by this acquitted; but the one who examines me is the Lord. Therefore do not go on passing judgement before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men’s hearts; and then each man’s praise will come to him from God. Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed, what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other.” 1 Corinthians 4:1-6
In Christ alone, mary
This blog has moved from being something I read for edification to something I now read for entertainment, if and when I bother at all. It seems like a haunt for a whole lot of podunk theologues who are confusing themselves with the reformers…and people say that Calvinists are arrogant? *pirate laugh*
I’ve gotta say that I know plenty of people at Chan’s church, and he’s apparently a bit goofy, but this video has increased my respect for Driscoll by like 15-17%! He lays Chan some hard questions and takes a few pokes at him! I loved it! I have a feeling that though I wouldn’t be able to be on staff at his church, I’d like ministering in the same city as him and cracking jokes at city ministerial meetings. We’d get along as long as we didn’t talk about certain issues, but he seems like a pretty straight shooting, funny guy who is loving the Lord as best he knows how.
Oh, and Harris is a total dork. Completely hi-fived a fist pound. Epic “I’m cool too” fail. I’m still laughing at that!