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(Updated…)
“‘See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand.” – Deut. 32:39
I’ve decided to make this short and, hopefully, sweet.
First, let me say that I appreciate Shai Linne providing his input into the ‘conversation’. Secondly, I hate how the word ‘conversation’ makes me sound emergent. I am so not. Thirdly…I don’t really have one at the moment so let’s just cut to the chase, shall we?
Once upon a time there was a post entitled Shai Linne & God – the hottest Poppa. Shai Linne, Christian hip-hop notable. The video of controversy is Shai Linne – Atonement Q & A. In regard to that post, some were very appreciative, others, not so much.
Personally, I wish I had never capitalized the word ‘Poppa’ because that is not a name of God. But I did. In doing so, I gave credence to the term. It may be a proper noun, but….add one more regret to my short thinking.
My objection to the video? Calling God ‘the hottest poppa’. I believe it is irreverent and implies one out of many. Shai Linne’s response? Here it is:
Hello Brothers,
This is Shai Linne. I’m the guy who wrote the lyric in question. I’m sorry to join the discussion so late, but I just learned of it today. First I want to say that I appreciate the concern of the original post. God’s commands are to be taken seriously and if a violation of the third commandment has occurred, I believe it should be addressed. Also, I actually don’t have a problem with people publicly responding to things that have been released publicly. So I commend the writer of the original post for taking a stand for the truth of God and desiring that His named be regarded as holy.
With that said, I believe some assumptions have been made, as evidenced throughout the comments.
Admin said:
“It is a blessed thing Manfred [a commenter on the original post], for God’s children to call Him Abba, Father. However, the phrase “I got the hottest poppa” is overwhelmingly a non-reverent way to appeal to listeners”
My response:
just so you know, my purpose in using the phrase was not to appeal to listeners because I think it sounds “cool”. Nor was my purpose to whet the world’s sinful, fleshly appetites. In fact, this song was written for Christians as a way to impart gospel truth in a memorable fashion for the purpose of catechesis.
With that said, if you are going to take such issue with my use of the phrase “hottest Poppa”, we should probably make sure we’re on the same page and that nothing has been lost in translation, so to speak. Language is funny like that sometimes. As we all know, two people can use the same exact word and mean two completely different things. Therefore, I would be remiss if I didn’t ask you to tell me what you think I actually meant by “hottest Poppa”. What’s your understanding of that particular colloquialism? I look forward to hearing your answer.
Fair enough.
Here’s my answer to Shai Linne:
Shai,
I don’t know you, but you claim, profess to be a Christian. Ok, this is what you need to know about the name of God.
I believe the colloquialism ’hottest poppa” should not be used in reference to God. It is completely irreverent. He reveals His Names in Scripture, but we do not get to assign names to Him, and His name is not to be made common. Ever. In any way. Period.
When God revealed His name to Moses on Mt. Sinai, we read:
God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’” Exodus 3:14
He said that, brother, because there is nothing else in the entire universe to compare Himself to. He is unique, one of a kind, holy – and that is what the term means. “I AM WHO I AM” precludes any comparison to other gods. The term ‘hottest’ implies one (or more) of many does it not? Is our God just one of many gods similar to Him, and He is ‘the hottest’ of them all? Or, is He thrice holy because there is none other like Him?
When you refer to our God as something that can be compared to another, say, for example, a man like Hugh Jackman, Hollywood actor, who has also been called ‘the hottest poppa’ you, perhaps mistakenly, malign the name of our great God, creator of heaven and earth, by referring to Him as the world refers to others. The Spirit of Christ in us cries out ‘Abba, Father! (Gal 4:6), but never do we find the Spirit of Christ in Scripture crying out “Hot Poppa!”
Get it? There is no other to compare Him to!
When you refer to God with terms used of another, you declare Him to be not unique and holy, but just another of many.
That is my thought on the matter. It is all about irreverence.
God bless you and yours Whom He has given you. I pray your skills as a musician, artistry and witness will be a blessing upon many in the time God has given you to live upon this earth.
- SDG, Joel
Amen and amen!
Very good response.
Thanks for that Joel.
I wish this had been your first post.
Joel,
You said:
“When you refer to our God as something that can be compared to another, say, for example, a man like Hugh Jackman, Hollywood actor, who has also been called ‘the hottest poppa’ you, perhaps mistakenly, malign the name of our great God, creator of heaven and earth, by referring to Him as the world refers to others.
“Get it? There is no other to compare Him to!
“When you refer to God with terms used of another, you declare Him to be not unique and holy, but just another of many.”
In this, you are wrong. Read Deuteronomy 10:17, Joshua 22:22, Psalms 136:2, and Daniel 11::36 – all of which declare the Lord God of Heaven as the God of gods. This is a comparative term – just as you said there isn’t one.
It is the Spirit of Christ that calls Him ‘Abba, Father’ Gal.4:6. You don’t assign names to God Manfred, he reveals them to us. His Name is the issue Manfred, not the topic of ‘comparative terms.’ God’s name is not to be made ‘common’, especially by His people. God reveals His Names, not men. When you find God in Scripture revealing His Name as ‘Hot poppa’ then you’ll have a foundation for an apologetic position. Until then…
Joel,
The Spirit of the living God within each believer, by Whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” IAW Romans 8:15. If one objects to the comparative, familiar term “hottest Pappa”, then one should object to all non-Greek or non-Chaldean language names for God.
God Himself compares Himself to other gods throughout Scripture. Without such contrasts, humans have a hard time discriminating between two ideas, etc.
“Glory to God in the highest!” is a comparative term, showing how God is over all.
I understand and share your concern about revering the name of God. I do not understand why you draw the line – twice – on this phrase found in an overall excellent theological exposition of reformed truth.
Irreverence.
I’m not a rap fan but someone gave me one of his cd’s so I would hear the theology in it. He is decidely reformed and very sound.
As to the name of God, shouldn’t the real debate be how we pronounce YHWH? Seems to me that God has given us His name and we lost it. Yahweh, Jehovah, Yahuwah?
God has given us His word to know Him by. Any time we go outside of His word for such a purpose we start down the path of crafting an image of a god out of our own imaginations.
God’s name is so connected with who He is and what He stands for that we must be just as circumspect with what we call Him as we are with what we think about Him.
What we call Him and what we think about Him must be limited by Scripture.
Amen!
I will keep this as brief as possible. I had never heard of Shai Linne before the post by JT about the hottest poppa thingy. Many of you have said his work is very theologically sound and I am glad. For me, this issue has never been about the artist or any artist. When the original post hit the blog, many of us offered our concern over whether the message and treatment of the holiness of God (including His name) had been culturally contextualized to the point of becoming mistakenly in violation of scripture.
The issue was never a race/culture/economic/age issue for me. It was a question of how far could/should one go in culturally contextualizing scripture. I have seen examples in most genre of Christian music including gospel quartets, hymns, soloists, rock, rap, grunge, metal, and so forth where mistakes have been made IMO.
Thanks to JT for having the courage to stand against the system (post-modern idea that people are not reachable unless we become worldly). Is Shai Linne taking the solid message of God to a generation and/or culture that will not listen to John MacArthur for example? Yes and this is great. At the end of the day however, we all must realize that the power of God is the determining factor and not the methods utilized by man. Thanks to all who have weighed in on this matter.
Joel,
Thank you for your response. I am in whole-hearted agreement with you about the uniqueness of God and His incomparable majesty. In fact, I heartily “Amen” the majority of your post. However, with all the true things that you said, you never actually addressed my original question:
In my original post, I said:
“Therefore, I would be remiss if I didn’t ask you to tell me what you think I actually meant by “hottest Poppa”. What’s your understanding of that particular colloquialism? I look forward to hearing your answer.”
You never addressed this isn your response.
Words are useful only inasmuch as they convey meaning, or meaning is ascribed to them. Perhaps an example might be helpful.
Is it ever appropriate to refer to God as “Gospodin”? What about “Domnul”? What do you think?
Well, our Croatian and Romanian brothers and sisters would say it’s very appropriate, since those are the words translated “Lord” in their respective languages. My point is that we can’t answer the question of the propriety or impropriety of the terms until we actually know the meaning of the terms.
As a sidenote:
Joel, you used the following argument in your last post:
“When you refer to God with terms used of another, you declare Him to be not unique and holy, but just another of many.”
This is not a sound argument, brother. For instance, the term “king” has often been used of others, including Elvis Presley. Will the fact that it’s been used of Elvis keep you from using it in reference to God?The Bible itself uses the same word in reference to both earthly kings and God Himself. A simple comparison of Psalm 21:7 and Psalm 24:8 will show one of many Biblical examples of this. This does not at all take away from God’s uniqueness or holiness.
But that is not my main point right now. Right now, I’m just asking you to answer a simple question. Please tell me what you think I meant by the use of the phrase “hottest Poppa”.
Thanks brother,
grace and peace,
shai
Shai,
You’re quite welcome. As for what you meant or your motive, I will leave that to the Lord. I can only imagine your intentions were that of praise. In other words, what you meant or your motives is not really my concern because neither will influence the minds of those who hear what has been recorded. People will not be influenced by intent, but they may be by what they hear and see brother. That is why behavior reflects our true belief. That is why the issue is not your intentions, but rather addressing our God in ways that I believe are irreverent. If you had recorded ‘hot’ or ‘great’, that would be one thing. Yet ‘hottest’ implies, again, among many. How many Creator’s of heaven and earth are there brother? Again, ‘hottest’ appears to be an attempt to make the God of Scripture ‘hip’ and acceptable to the hearers of your music. I am not saying that was your intent. It is simply the way it sounds.
Aside from our God, the Sovereign Creator and Sustainer of all things, there is no other god.
“‘See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand.” – Deut. 32:39
SDG, Joel
Do you think that “hottest” implies multiple gods moreso than “Thall shall have no other gods before me”?
You could perhaps take it even a bit further and apply it to the parables. Is it irreverent to refer to a figure clearly meaning to represent the Son of Man as simply as someone who “sowed good seeds in his field”? Is it irreverent to refer to Christ as a bridegroom?
What does “hottest poppa” bring to mind?
I am 57 years old and so I may not understand all of the youthful venacular and jargan, however the word hot as in “hottest poppa” reminds me of when people the age of my son and daughters or grand-kids are referring to someone who is “hot” or good looking with sexual conotations attached. Knowing this use of these words, personaaly I and my wife Ruth would be offended if our children or grandchildren addressed me in such a way.
In that description with the word hot or hottest being used that way today, I think to refer to God as “hottest poppa’ is an inappropriate way to describe the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Poppa like Abba I would’nt have a problem with, but when you use the word “hottest”, to me, and I suppose to many others, it is possibly an adjective that suggests God in a derogatory sense to His character and attributes.
In our day, the character and attributes of God are under attack. There is an attempt to make Christ Jesus, God and the gospel “politically correct”, by many belevers and non-believers to make God more palatable to themselves and others around them, to make God more familiar. That is why we have the “gospel of love and grace”, without the balance of justice and truth. That is why we have gospels being preached without repentance, judgment, the punishment and death sin brings, and hell. That is why books like, “The Shack”, which by the way calls their female god in the story “poppa Louise”, have sold like 100,000,000 copies with millions of readers, many so-called Christians, proclaiming the book has helped them, “to see God as they have never seen Him before”(but it is not the God of the Bible). That is why the false gospel of “universal reconciliation” is so popular, because why would a God of love condemn people to hell for their sin and rebellion against Him, their creator.
A little leaven, leavens the whole lump. Good point about the name discussion. The term, “hottest poppa” in my opinion tries to make God familiar in an unbiblical way. I don’t think that when we are fallen prostrate to worship before the God of all glory or we are fellowshipping with Him at the marraige supper of the Lamb, that the name “hottest poppa’ will not be a name we are using to decribe Him.
Love ya all in His grace, Jim
I appreciate everyone’s concern for the reverence of God and His name. It is a serious problem and one worthy of our time and consideration. I just want to say a couple of things.
…
We have to remember that the word “hot” can have different meanings depending on what is being described. For example, some online stores tag certain items as HOT to show that the item is popular.
When Shai Linne describes God as the “hottest poppa” he is probably not referring to God’s appearance but His greatness or bestness. Why do I say this? Because of the context in which the phrase was used–adoption. And that was used in the context of a whole bunch of different theological concepts–regeneration, expiation, justification, sanctification, etc. Considering the context, it’s not hard to figure out that he wasn’t talking about God’s sexiness or anything along those lines. What if he had said “sweetest poppa” instead? The meaning would have been essentially the same.
I understand that there are certain words that are irreverent and derogatory no matter what the context but “hottest” isn’t one of them. All I’m trying to say is that words and phrases mean different things according to their context. Calling Hugh Jackman the hottest poppa and calling God the hottest poppa doesn’t (shouldn’t) evoke the same image (in fact, before I read this blog, I didn’t even know that Hugh Jackman was ever called “hottest poppa”).
When the adjective “hot” is used in reference to a person it normally means sexy. If i was out with my wife and called one of her friends “hot” i would not be able to explain it away quite as easily as some here have done when it is a reference to God.
Ok, Shai – I will bite. What did you mean by the phrase “hottest Poppa”? What were you trying to convey in context with that phrase in your lyrics? After describing what you meant by the phrase, please tell me whether your immediate audience would have understood the message that you were trying to convey. In other words, do they understand the phrase as one that is ultimately glorifying God?
If you would like to talk offline, I am game. I just would like to understand what you mean.
Wow. I praise God for this discussion, and for the humilty of Shai Linne and Joel in hashing it out in love with Scripture. This is very edifying.
Sola Christus.
Marcus
Shai Linne,
God bless you, brother…just keep doing what you’re doing. My kids are learning (and retaining) deep doctrinal truths thanks to you and others like Stephen the Levite.
I guess if I informed Joel and others here that you describe Jesus as hot and slippery (’cause death couldn’t hold him), they would be quite displeased with that one as well. I am just as much or more concerned with reverencing our Lord as anyone (just ask those who know me), but this “controversy” appears to be something along the lines of straining out a gnat.
Come on guys, this really is one of those differences that doesn’t benefit the cause of Christ.
Press on, Shai, and congrats on the wedding!
The name of God is not a peripheral issue. Rather, it’s a core issue as it relates to God’s moral commands as summed up in the 10 commandments.
To equate taking God’s name seriously with straining out a gnat shows a lack of understanding or concern with the glory of God as revealed by His name.
Praise God for the humility indeed brothers. “Poppa” looks like it could be agreed upon and a simple definition of what was meant by “hottest” from Shai would clear things up. In Christian hip hop I have heard an artist in his song say “Our God is a beast”. If there was a way I could talk to this brother as well I’d wonder what he meant.
My tone is in love and a motive to sharpen one another.
GnP
Joel, I think I can speak for others when I say we are looking forward to your answer of Shai’s question concerning what you think Shai meant by “hottest Poppa”.
Are you planning to answer that?
Answered in the post. If you had read it brother, you’d have seen that. See references of the word ‘hottest’. Have a blessed Sunday.
I have to agree with a couple of the posts in that I applaud the overall humility of this entire thread so far. Soli Deo Gloria because there’s not a ounce of flesh responsible for this.
Good discussion and I too look forward to an answer Joel to Shai’s question……and his response.
Done. http://5ptsalt.com/2010/08/20/a-response-to-shai-linne/#comment-5158
Your argument is hollow because your accusation is false. You suppose that Shai has “given a name to God.” He did no such thing. I agree when you say that Scripture gives us the names of God and we are not to give Him any other name, but Shai has simply described God, and has not given him another name. If you truly wish to contend that Shai has given God another name, then you would also have to speak out (equally) against the song “our God is an awesome God.” The Bible never uses the term “awesome” to refer to God. I could name 1,000 other songs that refer to God and describe God using non-biblical language (such as awesome). Please speak out against those songs as well. However, you will not speak out against those songs because you realize those songs are not “attributing another name” for God but they are using the English language to describe him. It amazes me that you accuse Shai of doing something wrong when all songs do the very same thing that he is doing. I have to ask myself why he is being singled out?