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acts 29, adrian, Calvinism, chandler, contemplative, CSM, disciplines, Driscoll, Mark, matt, network, new, Prayer, spiritual, Warnock
The following interview of Matt Chandler by Adrian Warnock I found a little disconcerting. While we pray for and desire a full recovery for our brother Matt, his charismatic tendencies and seeming promotion of some WOF practices within the Village Church where he is lead pastor is one more concern in a basket of confusing theology. Reformed, yet charismatic; regarding gifts – a continuationist; Calvinistic yet promoting contemplative mysticism through books by the likes of Quaker mystic Richard Foster and others.
In this interview, Matt speaks among other things, how they handle receiving ‘a word’ presumably from the Lord, from members of his congregation.
At the 3:42 mark, Matt tells us:
“If there’s a word, it tends to come to the elders, then the elders spend some time praying and looking at it and then we decide where to go with it from there. So whether that’s a rolling out of that word to the congregation at large or just a thanking of that person and a further considering. We also do that with dreams and visions…. That’s kind of how we’ve operated thus far.
Some of our guys went up to Sovereign Grace to check out C.J., Josh Harrison and see some of the kinds of ways they work with that….So we’re kinda learning in this area.
No word is mentioned of how the elders look at that ‘word’, but I hope it involves comparing it to the written, final revelation of God. If not, then there’s a dangerous example being set for young, immature Christians. Individuals who await or offer a ‘word from the Lord’ apart from Scripture is equating that ‘word’ with Scripture. Dangerous theology, indeed….if that’s the case.
One thing is for certain. There are more than enough theological maladies to be found within the Acts 29 network and its ‘new calvinism’ without a ‘word from the Lord’ to confuse just about anyone.
At Apprising.org, Ken Silva has examined further dangers in the theology and contemplative/mystical practices of Matt Chandler and the Acts29 Network founded by Mark Driscoll.
For those interested, I highly recommend Bob Dewaay’s excellent article entitled “The Problem with Personal Words from God: How People become False Prophets to Themselves” .
“his charismatic tendencies and seeming promotion of some WOF practices within the Village Church”
Not just charismatic practices, but Word of Faith practices, too? That’s surprising–what Word of Faith practices do you mean?
The business of getting ‘a word from the Lord’ – if that’s what it is. Again, a little fuzzy, but seems to be what he’s describing. Regardless, the CSM practice and promotion is bad enough.
Ah. I assumed you meant something distinctly Word of Faith, as opposed to basic charismaticism–like WOF’s “name it & claim it” idea.
Bringing up WOF when talking about the charismatic view of prophecy seems like bringing up the liberal PCUSA denomination when talking about infant baptism: “I’m bothered by Tim Keller’s paedobaptist tendencies and his promotion of some PCUSA practices”.
P.S. The point I want to make is that “getting a word from the Lord” is from the basic charismatic view of prophecy–which Chandler openly embraces.
I did not mean to say that you couldn’t possibly have a reason to bring up WOF in particular. If you do have such a reason, please say so. And if it turns out that you don’t, then I can’t imagine that you would want to paint all charismatics with the WOF brush.
Yes it is, no problem, I have no such reason that I know of and no, I would not desire to paint all charismatics with the WOF brush. By the way, how are your tomatos?
Ah, good deal.
The seedlings are doing fine–I think they’ll be on track to transplant for Austin’s fall season. The 3 cherry tomato plants are coming very nicely–multiple bunches with tiny fruits already growing. The two regular-size tomatoes (Black Krim and BHN444) are growing all right, but with hardly any flowers, and the ones that do appear don’t seem to be fruiting. Sadly, I realized that they’re not getting direct sun until around 3pm, so I’m not sure how well they’ll do.
Once I realized that, I bought a fairly-well-established “patio tomato” plant from the grocery store, too, and planted that. It already has many good-size fruits.
We may end up swimming in tomatoes. I’ll have to learn to can them.
Well, *sigh* God bless brother Mark. But this is no surprise to me. I love this guy, but I also love John Piper, and I heard him say something similar in a recent video about promoting gifts like this.
:-\
Dangerous ground, men… playing around with this terminology and lite mysticism confuses everyone.
The first exposure to Chandler I had, before his cancer was known, left me a bit squeamish. sigh Give me the Word of God revealed – not something man thinks God may have said or nudged or signaled to him.
Good warnings about “words from the Lord” as often they are not. However, do you think prophecies have absolutely no place in the Church today? I’m not well studied on this but I read some in Paul’s letters about church members having prophecies to share and tongues to interpret that I do wonder how such things are to be appropriately done, if at all.
God brought my husband and I out of this! No Matt Chandler. Please, No!
This seems more like “experimentation” with spiritual gifts. Having been a former charismatic (and a very devoted one at that) and not being Reformed, quite frankly, being a Reformed Charismatic is taking a step backward. A lot of these people who are part of the Reformed Charismatic camp never came from a Charismatic background, so I’m guessing the novelty of Charismatic experiences draws them in. However I prefer to be less speculative and more objective in my theology – this is something that Charismania did not give me.
I don’t understand what’s so much better about a “Word from the Lord” that’s not just from the Bible. Might as well be sure that it’s Him speaking!
Tongues are utilized in Acts 2 to bring thousands into the kingdom, not babbling, but coherent speech in foreign language which all present in the street heard. The text does not mention that those tarrying in Jerusalem for the Paraklete were speaking in any other language but their native tongue; rather, that those present below heard what was spoken about the Lord in their native tongue and were astonished.
Regarding claim that “Calvinists” were not interested in “doing missions”, please read: http://www.ctlibrary.com/ch/1986/issue12/1223.html and http://www.wrs.edu/Materials_for_Web_Site/Journals/16-1_Feb-2009/Coleman–Calvin_Missions.pdf.
Keep up the good work!
If there is anyone who promotes comparing everything to scripture, it is Matt Chandler and the village church. Truth is strictly taught out of the scriptures and if any word or vision is had within the church leadership it is compared to the known truth of God in scriptures because this is how we know truth. As a member at the village I can attest to this.
Micah,
Why, then, is Matt Chandler part of this wretched event?
http://www.theelephantroom.com/
why is this a wretched event?
Morgan,
Take a look at the speakers. How many are not sliding into apostasy? Mark Driscoll is front and center – bad form, bad content. Why associate publicly with him in this context? No good reason. Wretched.