In all the deception coming from the emergent church, especially gay-affirming Jay Bakker and his disciples, it seems they may actually be getting their ‘theology’ from a less-than reputable ‘translation’ of Scripture. One such ‘translation is called ‘The Message’. On sale now at ‘Christian’ bookstores near you. But first, let’s do a small comparison of two versions….
Here’s the ESV:
“Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. – I Corinthians 6:9-11 (ESV)
Solid! But wait, have you read ‘The Message’?
“Don’t you realize that this is not the way to live? Unjust people who don’t care about God will not be joining in his kingdom. Those who use and abuse each other, use and abuse sex, use and abuse the earth and everything in it, don’t qualify as citizens in God’s kingdom. A number of you know from experience what I’m talking about, for not so long ago you were on that list. Since then, you’ve been cleaned up and given a fresh start by Jesus, our Master, our Messiah, and by our God present in us, the Spirit.” (online source)
Huh? Do you see any difference? Ok, now all of you who complain about my using greek word studies, show yourselves!
Is Jay Bakker even reading the Bible? Seems “The Message” version is taking homosexuality completely out of view of the justice of God!!!
Seems like this ‘version’ opens the door to emergent excuses for rebellion to God’s Word.
You tell me, which version, or one similar to ‘The Message’ of do you think Jay Bakker and his emergent, gay-affirming companions are most likely reading?
Someone I know has told me about this version. They use it in their church, but then again they have “bible studies” on The Purpose Driven Life. Frightening, isn’t it.
I’m emerging, but not gay affirming. Could you please not lump those together. It misrepresents my group.
Thank you.
Adam, When you say “I’m emerging”, what does that mean to you exactly? I’m constantly trying to get a handle on these terms because they seem to mean something different to everyone I’ve asked. I know it’s off topic, but it looks like we already headed that way, so I’m going to ask anyway.
when I say I’m emerging, what I mean is this:
-When the term “emerging” was coined, it wasn’t some theological argument, it was merely refering to the types of churches that are “emerging” as our world transferred into a postmodern culture. It is not a term that approves of postmodern culture, it is merely a faith that lives and moves in a postmodern culture. Just as the churches in the past were shaped by the culture of their day, an “emerging” church will be shaped by the coming culture of our day.
-I’m not afraid of questioning EVERYTHING. Deconstruction seems to be the buzz word that comes to mind. Everything that happens in my life is fair game for deep scrutiny.
-I am a part of a conversation. The “emerging” church is nothing more than a big room where people are free to gather and chat about whatever they wish. You can be “gay-affirming” or “anti-gay” or whatever. You can believe that women aren’t to be pastors and you can believe they are. No one is excluded from the conversation except those who aren’t centered on Jesus or are “anti-christian.” (for obvious reasons). If you hear “emergent” people and “non-emergent” people define the Gospel, you’ll probably hear very very very similar definitions. The point is that we’re in the same conversation. You can be uber-conservative or uber-liberal and you’re still welcome to the table.
-I heard it best said this way, “If you’re a baptist pastor with a cowboy hat from texas, you have to be able to sit across the table from a lesbian methodist pastor from san fransisco and discuss how the gospel is to be lived out in our current culture.”
do those answer or create more questions?
It sounds very much like a confused group of people meeting for coffee guessing what things might be “true” and what “true” really means.
I’ve noticed the word “deconstruct” thrown about liberally in the emergent philosophy. It is my understanding that it just means that you give yourself license to disbelieve what does not suit you and then redefine what you think the Bible says. Not what it actually says, but what you can twist it to say with a very important thing missing. That ‘thing’ would be context.
if you substitute the word “seeking” for your word “confused” and the words “to figure out” with your word “guessing” I think you’ve got it pretty much understood.
every single argument for or against the emerging church seems – to me – to boil down to how you define it.
AND since there is no institutionalized version of the emergent/emerging church, there is no authoritative source from which to find a definition. I wouldn’t really worry about “emerging” or “emergent” folks.
also, for a more well-rounded understanding of “decontruct” i’d check out the definition: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/deconstruction
If I were worried about the conversations that seem to be happening in the emerging/emergent camp (and I am) as it seems that this blog is, i would just humbly and respectfully insert my voice to the conversation (as I regularly do).
I wouldn’t go in name calling or talking down in a conversation like that (which this blog does), but i would go in open to discussion and dialogue and seeking truth.
I agree Adam that from what I’ve seen in the emergent blogosphere, the word “emergent” means a lot of different things to a lot of different people, yet is never clearly defined. I will tell you that I clearly hold to the Bible alone to be the Word of God revealed to men and written by men by the inspiration of God. Not just the portions that are in red, but all of it. Because I believe this, I look to Scripture for my answers when a culture changes, not man.
In Rom.16:17-18 it says “Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.”
There are many pastors today, that are teaching in a way that is contrary to Scripture and are leading many astray. Many of those being led away are sitting in emergent churches and go to church each Sunday to hear another sermon full of pop-psychology (man’s word), not God’s Word. If I seemed a bit harsh in coming down on the use of the word “emerging”, know that it is because of my concern and love for the lost and those that are being deceived. If the Bible is not your spiritual and moral authority then you do not have God as master over your life. There are many that are have been led into thinking that they are their own authority- self is master and they live by their own opinions. We show love by pointing out the error.
I hold to this Adam from Mark 8:38 “For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.”
I’m not ashamed of God’s Word…all of it, even those that point out my sin.
@Catherine
I totally agree. The word “emerging” does mean a lot of things to a lot of people. When the first guys started throwing around the term “emerging” church, it wasn’t as if a new breed of faith was being born, it just meant that our changing world was providing new trials, temptations, pressures and questions to our faith.
I think that we can all agree that in the US – over the past decade or so – there have been events and changes in our culture that brought up questions that had gone un-answered – or even un-discussed – in our world before. Changes in technology has totally transformed the experience of living on this planet. The realities of severe suffering, twisting of religion to justify war, the globalization of ideas and cultures and continual striving of a church to evangelize without discipling have brought upon new conversations and new discussions.
John Piper is addressing those. This blog is addressing those. I’m addressing those issues. Jay Bakker is addressing those. We all are. Those of us who aren’t in touch with how our christian faith aligns with those issues are left with our heads in the sand and with no way to live out – let alone share – our faith. The whole spectrum – far left to far right – is dealing with faith in a new – hence “emerging” – way.
Those who don’t find themselves part of this conversation need not fear (unless they feel that “emerging” expressions of faith aren’t actually faith at all) as this has happened many times throughout history before. In each instance, the new forms of faith have helped add to and grow the body of Christ throughout the world. Also, in each instance – the expressions of faith that were not new – but had been practiced for decades – were left intact and strenghtened by the growth of the body of Christ as a whole.
Caroline, I know this….
I’m in my mid-twenties. I’m a youth pastor. Every single day I drill my brain trying to figure out how to help teenagers and young adults learn to read their Bible every day, pray without ceasing, listen to God’s Word (both written and God’s “still small voice”) for their direction in every single decision big and small. I want them to have a heart that burns for God and burns for others (both neighbors and enemies) as Christ says that we can’t do one without the other.
I also know this. My teenagers are asking questions. The youth group I work with is asking questions. The young adult Bible study I lead is full of people who are asking questions. They are questions that our parents generation didn’t have to deal with when they were growing up. They are questions of our generation. They are questions about why churches do the things they do (there is no biblical president for an hour long sermon every week).
I just know that the “emerging” conversation has given me a place to learn and grow and understand God in ways I never thought possible before. Instead of glaring at me as I raised questions (i.e. deconstructed) – as those in my conservative evangelical university did – the “emerging” conversation gave me a space to wrestle with God. I caught a new – more beautiful glimpse of Jesus that I had never seen before. I heard Christ’s voice, not just the words as written emotionlessly on a page, but Jesus tone. His – as Brennen Manning says – “Relentless Tenderness.”
So I don’t know what that makes me, but I know that those within the emerging conversation came and encouraged me as I journey toward deeper understanding. So when I read stories like the one posted hear, it is like hearing a stranger slander your parents. Yeah, your parents aren’t perfect (but lets remember that no ones parents are), but how the HECK does a stranger know jack about your parents.
(also, according to Jay says that he doesn’t use the message to study https://twitter.com/jaybakker/status/3611902742)
Adam, I think its fabulous that so many are asking questions. That gives you many opportunities to witness, see people repent of their sin, and come to Christ. I’m sure you are spending more time on your knees and a lot more time in the Word. I know I want to be sure when I give answers, that they are God’s answers, not man’s, remembering that only those that are of the faith will be able to truly understand God’s ways.
1 Cor. 2:13-14 And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
btw, Joel never said that Bakker uses “The Message”. I think the point he was making was that Bakker might as well, since his beliefs on homosexuality line up perfectly with the way Peterson paraphrased this verse in his bible.
agreed. thanks for allowing this conversation to be a blessing. I hope more of this conversation would happen between those inside and outside of the emerging church. I think those outside do a terrific job of anchoring the conversation while those inside do a good job of challenging the man-made parts of today’s christianity. I think the wresting and the learning and the tension has made both sides sharper (and will hopefully birth unity in Jesus instead of disunity over doctrine).
Grace and Peace.
Adam
As a brand-new infant in Christ, I picked up a copy of The Message last year and dumped it after reading its version of John 3:16. That led into a little bit deeper research into it, but that was the big red flag for me, and made it all-too-clear where a lot of our modern-day version of “salvation” that lacks any real focus on eternity gets its “credence”.